Some time ago I posted a review of Bitweaver CMS. Today I wish to retract that, and highlight the shocking state that the project is in at the moment. Basically it is a CMS for DEVELOPERS by DEVELOPERS. Users need not apply!
On the 4th of April, Kinderlehrer posted this into a wiki page(Google linked as the page was removed):
Ode to Bitweaver
Created by: kinderlehrer, Last modification: Sat 04 of Apr, 2009 (08:59 UTC)
Bitweaver, Bitweaver its been a year now
Since I downloaded your software, and turned hand to the plough
Nothing less than a learning curve, did I find myself on
Oh where have the hours, days, weeks and months gone?
At first it was sparkle, glamour and wow
A little bit different from where I sit now
Your modular framework looked like a plus
Pity that parts of it led me to cuss
I've plundered the forums, signed on to IRC chat
Listed on Sourceforge – you can thank Spoonman for that.
Trying to find answers for the questions I've had
Though pity quick responses were lacking a tad
I can see you had vision, to break away
From the all-or-nothing tight Tikiwiki way
I wonder though if your vision had legs
And the focus and structure that this project begs
I may be a novice, but it seems to me
There are quite a few packages in your programme tree
And no real trunk or roots to speak of
No project leader, when push comes to shove.
Each developer is out there on their own separate limb
Doing whatever he pleases – acting on whim
Which is part of the process – don't get me wrong
To keep the project moving along
But isn't it true that for a future to see
The programme needs users, but instead they flee
Because not everything's working and its written for dev's
And for the main it messes with users wysiwyg heads
My hope is that in future not so far distant
That things about Bitweaver are more consistent
That the support is not needed because everything works
That an efforts been made to iron out all the quirks.
Perhaps those at the core, could consider a bit
To set aside time, and to the goal to commit
Of squashing the bugs, of righting the wrongs
And putting an end to what's continued so long
Please hear me dear Bitweaver, I think there's still hope
To clean up your code, and I don't mean with soap.
To provide a great product, that threatens the others
So users will want your's and not consider anothers
In case it eludes you on just where to start
Let me suggest in the 'official' and the 'required' part
So wiki_page_changes, newsletter subscribe - UTF-8
Memory leakage on page edit, and wiki book create
Thumbnailing files, inserting images in rows
A universal gallery and flashvideo
After that to the boards, and searching and stats
Auto-updating backlinks, and then any other mice and rats.
With all of this said, and this prose to an end
One last thing is to state there's no intention to offend
I thought it were better to express my ideas in this way
Than to rant and rave, in the forum today
(c) Kinderlehrer, April 2009
Reply to this comment
by Lester Caine, Sat 04 of Apr, 2009 (07:42 UTC)
kinderlehrer - coming from the other side, having wasted a couple of years trying to find something that I COULD modify to provide the facilities I'm currently using, bitweaver is a breath of fresh air. Yes there are some holes that need filling up, but my own live sites have been running for some time now (the theme's are still bw1 based wink ) and I never seem to hit bugs others report, but when I do I try and clear them up.
I have a package here that combines fisheye and treasury since I wanted a single package, but since spiderr tidied up the gallery view options in fisheye, some of the need has gone. I added a nice scroller view a few days ago, which did not take long to do, and ended up with my fixing another couple of areas as well. The framework is getting there and is stable, now we need to create a few more bells and whistles ....
The released code should be a compact stable package, and personally I think that the optional package page should default to not selected so that people have to think what they add! We have MULTIPLE options simply because people have different ways of working so lets not loose that KEY point about bitweaver - We do not have dictators in control biggrin
Reply to this comment
by kinderlehrer, Sat 04 of Apr, 2009 (09:47 UTC)
Lester, it certainly would be good to know if some of the bugs and issues I and others have had, have actually been fixed. The threads in the forums and on SF are quite numerous and look untended and ignored. I understand that there are a variety of server set-ups, but the issues raised above are core and package issues like newsletters not working and not being in UTF-8 (ie doesn't render special characters), not being able to get an email when a wiki page is changed, not being able to easily add pages to a wiki book as you can only see one page at a time. These are all the things that people expect that because they are listed as being available - will work. If not - they should have a dated note with them that xyz is still being fixed perhaps.
I am excited at your assurance that there is an amicable gallery solution and still like the idea of combining fisheye and treasury, but as I am not intrinsically familiar with their idiosyncracies yet I have not gone ahead and done so, despite wanting to K.I.S.S. for users.
I do appreciate that you have been one of the people willing to talk through Bitweaver issues and answer questions respectfully. I just hope that I can become such an avid advocate of it.
Following this the exchange from the lead Dev; Spiderr (aka Christian Fowler):
(Google cache in case this gets removed too)http://www.bitweaver.org/forums/topic/11717#comment_11726
Ode to Bitweaver
Posted:Sat 04 of Apr, 2009 (14:10)
This poem is for you.
Re: Ode to Bitweaver
Posted:Sun 05 of Apr, 2009 (10:10)
Wow, first CMS poem
Re: Ode to Bitweaver
Posted:Mon 06 of Apr, 2009 (07:30)
Let me be blunt: your criticism is far from acceptable. Get a book and learn to code or find a project better suited for your needs. We have no room for people that complain, yet do nothing about it.
Criticizing people who bust their ass is far from helpful. While your participation in the forums is very appreciated, last I checked, you have not done anything to materially move the project forward. As in, do REAL work like write code, or work on templates, or make builds, tend the bug database, try to get us reviewed, etc. Sitting around and chatting is NOT work. Fixing problems is.
This is FREE software, so you are FREE to contribute. Until you become part of the solution, your complaints just piss people off.
Re: Ode to Bitweaver
Posted:Mon 06 of Apr, 2009 (19:19)
Maybe too severe reaction, dont you think Spider? Have you lost all the kindness you usually express? I did not read the poem, but I surely know that "eye for an eye" attitude when handling criticism is not productive, especially not in a FOSS project.
I have not specially watched Kinderlehrers forum posts, though I think he performs pretty good in keeping the forum live. I want to remind you that posting meaningfully to the forum is a hard task, that not everybody is able to take, especially in such a small and fragmented (devs/others) community as bitweaver is.
So see for yourself, dear reader. A user of the bitweaver CMS who HAS been active in the forums and in the Sourceforge bug tracking area, but has not had joy with it, expresses their frustrations, in a manner that is polite and civil. So they are told to PISS OFF! It is without a doubt that sort of developer arrogance that leads to project death.
To Spiderr I say this: "If you don't want to help users, if you don't want to have a project that has users that find bugs and offer other users support, then why the hell is Bitweaver listed as providing all these features in a working condition - as ready for the user? Stop lying to yourself and the rest of the world. It's obviously for Devs, by Devs."
What sayeth you, intarweb?
Trackback address for this post
This post has 2 feedbacks awaiting moderation...